A THOUSAND WORDS - Alex Waterhouse-Hayward's blog on pictures, plants, politics and whatever else is on his mind.




 

The Epicurean Symmetry Argument
Monday, July 22, 2024


 

If death is annihilation, says Epicurus, then it is ‘nothing to us.’ Epicurus’ main argument for why death is not bad is contained in the Letter to Menoeceus and can be dubbed the ‘no subject of harm’ argument. If death is bad, for whom is it bad? Not for the living, since they’re not dead, and not for the dead, since they don’t exist. His argument can be set out as follows:

 Death is annihilation.

The living have not yet been annihilated (otherwise they wouldn’t be alive).

Death does not affect the living.

So, death is not bad for the living.

For something to be bad for somebody, that person has to exist, at least.

The dead do not exist.

Therefore, death is not bad for the dead.

Therefore death is bad for neither the living nor the dead.

A second Epicurean argument against the fear of death, the so-called ‘symmetry argument,’ is recorded by the Epicurean poet Lucretius. He says that anyone who fears death should consider the time before he was born. The past infinity of pre-natal non-existence is like the future infinity of post-mortem non-existence; it is as though nature has put up a mirror to let us see what our future non-existence will be like. But we do not consider not having existed for an eternity before our births to be a terrible thing; therefore, neither should we think not existing for an eternity after our deaths to be evil.

 

In 1962 and 1963 I studied philosophy as one of my elective courses at Mexico City College. My professor, Ramón Xirau, not quite yet known then, is now (he died in 2018) one of the most eminent thinkers and intellectuals of Mexico.

 

Ramón Xirau 1994 - Lucinda Irrustia - oil on canvas

Xirau started with the Pre-Socratic Philosophers and two years later ended with Sartre.

I was most affected by two philosophers; one was the genius of materialism, Epicurus and the other his opposite Plato. Since then my life has been one of me comparing and contrasting the thoughts of these two men.

Cratylus & Plato 

Catness

Roseness 

Minutes before my Rosemary died on December 9, 2020 she asked us, “Am I dying?” I was unable to answer and I have been affected by that question since.

I will delve (I am about to be 82 so I can) a tad into my religious beliefs. I was educated in a Roman Catholic family by my grandmother. From 1958 to 1961 I went to a Roman Catholic boarding school run by Brothers of Holy Cross (the same congregation as in Indiana’s Notre Dame. My teachers were superb and especially Brother Edwin Reggio,C.S.C. who taught us religion. Years later I figured out he taught us theology and delved lots into Aristotelian and Thomistic philosophy. He prepared me to face Xirau.

With my grandmother María de los Dolores de Irureta Goyena

 

Brother Edwin Reggio,C.S.C.

Rosemary’s question is one that none of us can answer unless we are “lucky” to be in a situation where we do not die in our sleep or in an accident but we are in bed with time to reflect. Would we ever ask the question Rosemary asked us? What did she know then?

Both Rosemary and I did not believe we would ever see each other again. My thoughts on oblivion are straight from Epicurus.

I have a friend who is an avid believer in reincarnation. I tell her that if before I was Alex I was a hippopotamus and don’t remember I was one, and when I die should I become a camel that does not remember Alex of what use is reincarnation?

I am a firm believer in the Epicurean Symmetry Argument. The thought that I will not ever see Rosemary again is a sad thought.

 




     

Previous Posts
Caroline Said

A Bond in Our Marriage

Una Historia de Amor Continuada y Calurosa

Una Historia de Amor

A Portrait Photographer's Unique Melancholy

Wendy Under The Stars

That Posthumous Gift

The View From My Bed Now

Almost, Somewhat, Not Quite

El nueve de julio



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8/21/16 - 8/28/16

8/28/16 - 9/4/16

9/4/16 - 9/11/16

9/11/16 - 9/18/16

9/18/16 - 9/25/16

9/25/16 - 10/2/16

10/2/16 - 10/9/16

10/9/16 - 10/16/16

10/16/16 - 10/23/16

10/23/16 - 10/30/16

10/30/16 - 11/6/16

11/6/16 - 11/13/16

11/13/16 - 11/20/16

11/20/16 - 11/27/16

11/27/16 - 12/4/16

12/4/16 - 12/11/16

12/11/16 - 12/18/16

12/18/16 - 12/25/16

12/25/16 - 1/1/17

1/1/17 - 1/8/17

1/8/17 - 1/15/17

1/15/17 - 1/22/17

1/22/17 - 1/29/17

1/29/17 - 2/5/17

2/5/17 - 2/12/17

2/12/17 - 2/19/17

2/19/17 - 2/26/17

2/26/17 - 3/5/17

3/5/17 - 3/12/17

3/12/17 - 3/19/17

3/19/17 - 3/26/17

3/26/17 - 4/2/17

4/2/17 - 4/9/17

4/9/17 - 4/16/17

4/16/17 - 4/23/17

4/23/17 - 4/30/17

4/30/17 - 5/7/17

5/7/17 - 5/14/17

5/14/17 - 5/21/17

5/21/17 - 5/28/17

5/28/17 - 6/4/17

6/4/17 - 6/11/17

6/11/17 - 6/18/17

6/18/17 - 6/25/17

6/25/17 - 7/2/17

7/2/17 - 7/9/17

7/9/17 - 7/16/17

7/16/17 - 7/23/17

7/23/17 - 7/30/17

7/30/17 - 8/6/17

8/6/17 - 8/13/17

8/13/17 - 8/20/17

8/20/17 - 8/27/17

8/27/17 - 9/3/17

9/3/17 - 9/10/17

9/10/17 - 9/17/17

9/17/17 - 9/24/17

9/24/17 - 10/1/17

10/1/17 - 10/8/17

10/8/17 - 10/15/17

10/15/17 - 10/22/17

10/22/17 - 10/29/17

10/29/17 - 11/5/17

11/5/17 - 11/12/17

11/12/17 - 11/19/17

11/19/17 - 11/26/17

11/26/17 - 12/3/17

12/3/17 - 12/10/17

12/10/17 - 12/17/17

12/17/17 - 12/24/17

12/24/17 - 12/31/17

12/31/17 - 1/7/18

1/7/18 - 1/14/18

1/14/18 - 1/21/18

1/21/18 - 1/28/18

1/28/18 - 2/4/18

2/4/18 - 2/11/18

2/11/18 - 2/18/18

2/18/18 - 2/25/18

2/25/18 - 3/4/18

3/4/18 - 3/11/18

3/11/18 - 3/18/18

3/18/18 - 3/25/18

3/25/18 - 4/1/18

4/1/18 - 4/8/18

4/8/18 - 4/15/18

4/15/18 - 4/22/18

4/22/18 - 4/29/18

4/29/18 - 5/6/18

5/6/18 - 5/13/18

5/13/18 - 5/20/18

5/20/18 - 5/27/18

5/27/18 - 6/3/18

6/3/18 - 6/10/18

6/10/18 - 6/17/18

6/17/18 - 6/24/18

6/24/18 - 7/1/18

7/1/18 - 7/8/18

7/8/18 - 7/15/18

7/15/18 - 7/22/18

7/22/18 - 7/29/18

7/29/18 - 8/5/18

8/5/18 - 8/12/18

8/12/18 - 8/19/18

8/19/18 - 8/26/18

8/26/18 - 9/2/18

9/2/18 - 9/9/18

9/9/18 - 9/16/18

9/16/18 - 9/23/18

9/23/18 - 9/30/18

9/30/18 - 10/7/18

10/7/18 - 10/14/18

10/14/18 - 10/21/18

10/21/18 - 10/28/18

10/28/18 - 11/4/18

11/4/18 - 11/11/18

11/11/18 - 11/18/18

11/18/18 - 11/25/18

11/25/18 - 12/2/18

12/2/18 - 12/9/18

12/9/18 - 12/16/18

12/16/18 - 12/23/18

12/23/18 - 12/30/18

12/30/18 - 1/6/19

1/6/19 - 1/13/19

1/13/19 - 1/20/19

1/20/19 - 1/27/19

1/27/19 - 2/3/19

2/3/19 - 2/10/19

2/10/19 - 2/17/19

2/17/19 - 2/24/19

3/3/19 - 3/10/19

3/10/19 - 3/17/19

3/17/19 - 3/24/19

3/24/19 - 3/31/19

3/31/19 - 4/7/19

4/7/19 - 4/14/19

4/14/19 - 4/21/19

4/21/19 - 4/28/19

4/28/19 - 5/5/19

5/5/19 - 5/12/19

5/12/19 - 5/19/19

5/19/19 - 5/26/19

5/26/19 - 6/2/19

6/2/19 - 6/9/19

6/9/19 - 6/16/19

6/16/19 - 6/23/19

6/23/19 - 6/30/19

6/30/19 - 7/7/19

7/7/19 - 7/14/19

7/14/19 - 7/21/19

7/21/19 - 7/28/19

7/28/19 - 8/4/19

8/4/19 - 8/11/19

8/11/19 - 8/18/19

8/18/19 - 8/25/19

8/25/19 - 9/1/19

9/1/19 - 9/8/19

9/8/19 - 9/15/19

9/15/19 - 9/22/19

9/22/19 - 9/29/19

9/29/19 - 10/6/19

10/6/19 - 10/13/19

10/13/19 - 10/20/19

10/20/19 - 10/27/19

10/27/19 - 11/3/19

11/3/19 - 11/10/19

11/10/19 - 11/17/19

11/17/19 - 11/24/19

11/24/19 - 12/1/19

12/1/19 - 12/8/19

12/8/19 - 12/15/19

12/15/19 - 12/22/19

12/22/19 - 12/29/19

12/29/19 - 1/5/20

1/5/20 - 1/12/20

1/12/20 - 1/19/20

1/19/20 - 1/26/20

1/26/20 - 2/2/20

2/2/20 - 2/9/20

2/9/20 - 2/16/20

2/16/20 - 2/23/20

2/23/20 - 3/1/20

3/1/20 - 3/8/20

3/8/20 - 3/15/20

3/15/20 - 3/22/20

3/22/20 - 3/29/20

3/29/20 - 4/5/20

4/5/20 - 4/12/20

4/12/20 - 4/19/20

4/19/20 - 4/26/20

4/26/20 - 5/3/20

5/3/20 - 5/10/20

5/10/20 - 5/17/20

5/17/20 - 5/24/20

5/24/20 - 5/31/20

5/31/20 - 6/7/20

6/7/20 - 6/14/20

6/14/20 - 6/21/20

6/21/20 - 6/28/20

6/28/20 - 7/5/20

7/12/20 - 7/19/20

7/19/20 - 7/26/20

7/26/20 - 8/2/20

8/2/20 - 8/9/20

8/9/20 - 8/16/20

8/16/20 - 8/23/20

8/23/20 - 8/30/20

8/30/20 - 9/6/20

9/6/20 - 9/13/20

9/13/20 - 9/20/20

9/20/20 - 9/27/20

9/27/20 - 10/4/20

10/4/20 - 10/11/20

10/11/20 - 10/18/20

10/18/20 - 10/25/20

10/25/20 - 11/1/20

11/1/20 - 11/8/20

11/8/20 - 11/15/20

11/15/20 - 11/22/20

11/22/20 - 11/29/20

11/29/20 - 12/6/20

12/6/20 - 12/13/20

12/13/20 - 12/20/20

12/20/20 - 12/27/20

12/27/20 - 1/3/21

1/3/21 - 1/10/21

1/17/21 - 1/24/21

1/24/21 - 1/31/21

2/7/21 - 2/14/21

2/14/21 - 2/21/21

2/21/21 - 2/28/21

2/28/21 - 3/7/21

3/7/21 - 3/14/21

3/14/21 - 3/21/21

3/21/21 - 3/28/21

3/28/21 - 4/4/21

4/4/21 - 4/11/21

4/11/21 - 4/18/21

4/18/21 - 4/25/21

4/25/21 - 5/2/21

5/2/21 - 5/9/21

5/9/21 - 5/16/21

5/16/21 - 5/23/21

5/30/21 - 6/6/21

6/6/21 - 6/13/21

6/13/21 - 6/20/21

6/20/21 - 6/27/21

6/27/21 - 7/4/21

7/4/21 - 7/11/21

7/11/21 - 7/18/21

7/18/21 - 7/25/21

7/25/21 - 8/1/21

8/1/21 - 8/8/21

8/8/21 - 8/15/21

8/15/21 - 8/22/21

8/22/21 - 8/29/21

8/29/21 - 9/5/21

9/5/21 - 9/12/21

9/12/21 - 9/19/21

9/19/21 - 9/26/21

9/26/21 - 10/3/21

10/3/21 - 10/10/21

10/10/21 - 10/17/21

10/17/21 - 10/24/21

10/24/21 - 10/31/21

10/31/21 - 11/7/21

11/7/21 - 11/14/21

11/14/21 - 11/21/21

11/21/21 - 11/28/21

11/28/21 - 12/5/21

12/5/21 - 12/12/21

12/12/21 - 12/19/21

12/19/21 - 12/26/21

12/26/21 - 1/2/22

1/2/22 - 1/9/22

1/9/22 - 1/16/22

1/16/22 - 1/23/22

1/23/22 - 1/30/22

1/30/22 - 2/6/22

2/6/22 - 2/13/22

2/13/22 - 2/20/22

2/20/22 - 2/27/22

2/27/22 - 3/6/22

3/6/22 - 3/13/22

3/13/22 - 3/20/22

3/20/22 - 3/27/22

3/27/22 - 4/3/22

4/3/22 - 4/10/22

4/10/22 - 4/17/22

4/17/22 - 4/24/22

4/24/22 - 5/1/22

5/1/22 - 5/8/22

5/8/22 - 5/15/22

5/15/22 - 5/22/22

5/22/22 - 5/29/22

5/29/22 - 6/5/22

6/26/22 - 7/3/22

7/3/22 - 7/10/22

7/10/22 - 7/17/22

7/17/22 - 7/24/22

7/24/22 - 7/31/22

7/31/22 - 8/7/22

8/7/22 - 8/14/22

8/14/22 - 8/21/22

8/21/22 - 8/28/22

8/28/22 - 9/4/22

9/4/22 - 9/11/22

9/11/22 - 9/18/22

9/18/22 - 9/25/22

9/25/22 - 10/2/22

10/2/22 - 10/9/22

10/9/22 - 10/16/22

10/16/22 - 10/23/22

10/23/22 - 10/30/22

10/30/22 - 11/6/22

11/6/22 - 11/13/22

11/13/22 - 11/20/22

11/20/22 - 11/27/22

11/27/22 - 12/4/22

12/4/22 - 12/11/22

12/18/22 - 12/25/22

12/25/22 - 1/1/23

1/1/23 - 1/8/23

1/15/23 - 1/22/23

1/22/23 - 1/29/23

1/29/23 - 2/5/23

2/5/23 - 2/12/23

2/12/23 - 2/19/23

2/19/23 - 2/26/23

2/26/23 - 3/5/23

3/5/23 - 3/12/23

3/12/23 - 3/19/23

3/19/23 - 3/26/23

3/26/23 - 4/2/23

4/2/23 - 4/9/23

4/9/23 - 4/16/23

4/16/23 - 4/23/23

4/23/23 - 4/30/23

4/30/23 - 5/7/23

5/7/23 - 5/14/23

5/14/23 - 5/21/23

5/21/23 - 5/28/23

5/28/23 - 6/4/23

6/4/23 - 6/11/23

6/11/23 - 6/18/23

6/18/23 - 6/25/23

6/25/23 - 7/2/23

7/2/23 - 7/9/23

7/9/23 - 7/16/23

7/16/23 - 7/23/23

7/23/23 - 7/30/23

7/30/23 - 8/6/23

8/6/23 - 8/13/23

8/13/23 - 8/20/23

8/20/23 - 8/27/23

8/27/23 - 9/3/23

9/3/23 - 9/10/23

9/10/23 - 9/17/23

9/17/23 - 9/24/23

9/24/23 - 10/1/23

10/1/23 - 10/8/23

10/8/23 - 10/15/23

10/22/23 - 10/29/23

10/29/23 - 11/5/23

11/5/23 - 11/12/23

11/12/23 - 11/19/23

11/19/23 - 11/26/23

11/26/23 - 12/3/23

12/3/23 - 12/10/23

12/10/23 - 12/17/23

12/17/23 - 12/24/23

12/24/23 - 12/31/23

12/31/23 - 1/7/24

1/7/24 - 1/14/24

1/14/24 - 1/21/24

1/21/24 - 1/28/24

1/28/24 - 2/4/24

2/4/24 - 2/11/24

2/11/24 - 2/18/24

2/18/24 - 2/25/24

2/25/24 - 3/3/24

3/3/24 - 3/10/24

3/10/24 - 3/17/24

3/17/24 - 3/24/24

3/24/24 - 3/31/24

3/31/24 - 4/7/24

4/7/24 - 4/14/24

4/14/24 - 4/21/24

4/21/24 - 4/28/24

4/28/24 - 5/5/24

5/5/24 - 5/12/24

5/12/24 - 5/19/24

5/19/24 - 5/26/24

5/26/24 - 6/2/24

6/2/24 - 6/9/24

6/9/24 - 6/16/24

6/16/24 - 6/23/24

6/23/24 - 6/30/24

6/30/24 - 7/7/24

7/7/24 - 7/14/24

7/14/24 - 7/21/24

7/21/24 - 7/28/24

7/28/24 - 8/4/24

8/4/24 - 8/11/24

8/11/24 - 8/18/24

8/18/24 - 8/25/24

8/25/24 - 9/1/24

9/1/24 - 9/8/24

9/15/24 - 9/22/24

9/22/24 - 9/29/24

9/29/24 - 10/6/24

10/6/24 - 10/13/24

10/13/24 - 10/20/24

10/20/24 - 10/27/24

10/27/24 - 11/3/24